Letter to Editor Critical of Western Culinary Institute Lawsuit
Friday’s Oregonian includes a letter to the editor from a dissatisfied citizen, one Robin DesCamp, about the class action lawsuit we filed against Western Culinary Institute and its parent corporation Career Education Corp. Oregonian, B-7 (Mar. 7, 2008; sorry, but it doesn’t appear to be on-line).
Ms. DesCamp apparently has issues. According to her, the quote attributed to me in The Oregonian’s Thursday story provides no “valid basis for a cause of action against an educational institution.” Her prose–with all of its legal terminology–suggests that Ms. DesCamp went to law school. A quick search confirms that she is an Oregon attorney.
Ms. DesCamp mistakenly believes that “two women are suing the trade school for not providing them with lucrative careers upon graduation.” Well that’s some nice rhetoric, but it’s completely incorrect. Two women are suing because they claim were defrauded by two corporations in the trade-school-for-profit business. They seek repayment of tuition and debt relief, and they are not alone.
The complaint is available for Ms. DesCamp’s review. It might actually enlighten her to read it. It’s in this post: http://www.pspc.com/2008/03/western-culinary-institutecec-class-action-complaint
Unless she’s talked to WCI students and witnesses or attended the school, Ms. DesCamp won’t know the facts of how the students have been defrauded. It’s not proper to discuss them here, but let’s just say that the truth usually outs.
There is a certain bitterness and meanness in her letter. For example, she tries to compare the student debt load from trade school with that of a four-year university program. Weird stuff, when you think about it. You go to trade school to learn, well, a trade. That’s to say, you are there precisely for that reason. That’s a little different than what happens when you go to a four-year university to major in English literature. (Note for the humor challenged: I really don’t have anything against English majors….) To ridicule this case by suggesting I should handle bigger ones is wrong.
Ms. DesCamp should know better. As an Oregon lawyer, she surely knows that you can’t accurately evaluate a case based upon a quote in the news reports. Her assessments of what I think, what the plaintiffs knew, what claims they are making, and what relief they seek are all wrong. That’s fine. But if she is going to offer comment, it seems only fair and right and good that she at least learn the facts.
David F. Sugerman
Tags: Career Education Corp., CEC, editorial, WCI, western culinary institute
January 25th, 2009 at 3:02 am
I went to WCI (Portland OR) thinking I would receive an education that would benefit my desire to be a cook by providing me with the skills to be a chef…… Well, now (after graduating) I work at a nice restaurant as a cook that makes less than $10/hour. Ive tried looking for better paying jobs but since I dont have enough experience, regardless of my so-called education, I cant get a job that pays enough to take care of my student loans. The 18 year old busser makes more money in one weekend than I do in one pay period. I dont receive tips and only make slightly over minimum wage. WTF!!! I left my home in the midwest to pursue a better life and now Im left with a more than hefty student loan payment which is more than what I owe for rent each month. I feel like I have been taken advantage of. Everyday I wake up and Im stressed about bills and I barely have enough money to get by. In order to not pay the full amount of my monthly student loan bill I have to get a forbearance from my lender which cost $100. While Im in forbearance I try to catch up on the interest that accrues, so forget about the principal.
Not to mention that I learned more about cooking as a dishwasher than I have at the school that promised me a job as a chef. I could keep going but forget it, I have to figure out how to get a part-time job as a gas pumper or something that doesnt require 2-6 years experience.
January 25th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Ryan, thanks for your comment. While you need not do so, you should feel free to contact us privately if you have questions about the Western Culinary/Career Education Corp lawsuit pending in Portland. Use the contact button in the nav bar up top for our email, phone and address info, if you choose. If you send an email, please use a subject line like WCI or Western Culinary, as we get an awful lot of spam.
David Sugerman
August 9th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Hey Ryan,
I read your response, and let me just say i completely agree! I graduated inDec. Of ‘07, and now im in the same boat as you, as are most of the people we attended school with. It’s not right that they expect us to pay 6 to $700 per month on our school loans. Do they expect me to live with my mom and dad till im in my mid to late thirties? I dont think so. i mean how would i ever get any play with my folks always right next door? Haha! All joking aside, i dont think its very polite or legal that i get 6-10 phone calls a day. Isnt that herassment? Ive asked them many times to lower my payment, but they tell me that there is nothing they can do, and i apparently dont qaulify for financial hardship because i make to much.? If i made to much dont you think I would be able to make my payments? If im not in the bracket for financial hardship, then what damn bracket am i in? I dont understand WTF Im supposed to do, or what any of us are supposed to do. I have the degree and the experience, but none of that seems to matter. i hope we can nail those bastard to the cross. not the chefs so much, but the corporate crooked sons a bitches! Thank you Mr. Sugerman for having a heart and a sense of humanity. its good to know that there are still some good people out there striving for what is truely right.
August 10th, 2009 at 7:33 am
Noah-Thanks for your kind words. (I mean the ones about me, not the corp SOBs!) We’re still on it and moving forward.
David Sugerman
January 15th, 2010 at 1:19 am
I know i’m a little late on this but i just came across this….I feel the same way as all of you. I actually dropped out after 5 1/2months i started in nov 04 stopped in april 05. I am now around 20,000 dollars in debt from them. I work at wendys as a shift supervisor. I didn’t learn anything from the school that i didn’t already know from high school. My payments are so high i can’t afford them and i have to do the forberence shit too. I’m also a single mother trying to make it by and they don’t even care. Its b/s and i just found out about this lawsuit thing. I wondering if there is any hope for me/us?
April 9th, 2010 at 9:30 am
I completed my first semester at wci in 07′($28,000) it wasn’t until this time that I was informed that the only way I could proceed is if I was approved an additional $28,000 loan with a co-signer, not many individuals have that resource. I recall doing very well during the classes and helping a lot of the students; most of which were 18-20 years of age and about 40% of the students had NEVER worked in the food industry. It is now three years later I have been able to afford two monthly payments and am currently in deferrment and forbearance on 5 loans. Before attending this school I had nearly perfect credit, now I can’t even rent an apartment. Education should not ruin lives. Thank you for your hard work and contributions to the checks and balances system.
April 9th, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Thanks for your comment. Sorry to hear this story. I would email you privately but I’m not sure about the email address and whether it’s truly secure. If you would like more information feel free to call. My contact info has changed. New phone 503.228.6474. Email contact[at]davidsugerman.com
David Sugerman
April 16th, 2010 at 3:01 pm
While attending Western Culinary Institute, students were manipulated to serve as “wait staff” and line cooks for the various public eating establishments on campus, while receiving little or no training, and in the case of those unfortunate students the instructors didn’t favor, they were consigned to lowly jobs such as prep work and dish washing through an entire course without any real formal culinary training. In the case of one Garde Manger teacher, his answer to almost every question was, “Just be creative.” In the case of another instructor, he arrived late for class every day, smelled of marijuana, and included questions on his final exam such as, “How much is our large beverage?”, and “Where is the men’s room located?” He was also having an affair with a female student, and often they would both arrive to class late, both with bloodshot eyes and reeking of marijuana.
I was also instructed that we would receive support with our internships. When time came for my internship, one of the administrators sat and made one phone call to the establishment I had hoped to intern with, Cocolat in San Francisco. He did not try to negotiate an internship, he merely told them he was calling on my behalf, asked if they offered internships, then took a simple “no” for an answer, then tried to place me in an establishment that one of the instructors from the school owned, a run down candy store. The instructor that owned the establishment was rude and abrupt, and informed me I “better not be afraid to do floors and wash dishes, because I would be doing a lot of that, this was no vacation.” I chose not to do my internship there based on his rude demeanor, I had no problem with an internship that would have required me to work hard, but I saw little to no opportunity to learn at his establishment, and on first meeting he was already speaking to me as if I was conscripted into his service.
I had already spoken with the owner of Cocolat at a booksigning, and I had handed the administrator her card that she gave me personally for my internship. He mentioned none of this to whomever he spoke to when he called to arrange the internship, and failed to assist me further. It was obvious he had some arrangement with the instructor that owned his own establishment to supply free “help.”
As it turned out, I could expect very little support from the dean of academics, it turned out he was having an extra-marital affair with one of my fellow students as well, I confirmed this with him casually in conversation, and he seemed to think it was something to be proud of and smile about.
The final class of the program, “International” class, was merely another class with lectures that misinformed the students before sending them to go work in the public school eatery across the street. As what might seem a minor example, for the In ternational section on Mexico, the instructor, a Chef Glanville, insisted that the traditional quesadilla (a tortilla dish with melted cheese) was made with mashed potatoes. As a Mexican-American, when I attempted to correct the instrutor that the origin of the name “Quesadilla” stems from the word “Queso” because it contains cheese, I was marked down for “disrupting the class” and warned not to speak again. This was the general quality of the entrie second half of the year of my culinary program. We were used as “staff” to run the restaurants with little to no training with a few minor exceptions.
My International instructor, a gay male, treated students poorly unless they were younger and attractive, and especially male (I’m also a gay male and I could appreciate his taste in men, but this was just plain unprofessional), and in the case of two different students, showed an excess of preferential treatment, and I suspect was also having off-campus relations with. I witnessed him hugging one male student in his car in the campus parking lot and driving off campus with him. That student was given “special” tasks that took him out of the classroom, we hardly saw him in our class. Another student the instructor showed obvious interest in was elevated to an assistant instructing position during the day, when the “101″ classes were held.
All in all, what I had looked forward to as an professional introduction into the culinary world and the lead-in to a blossoming career as a professional chef lead to disillusionment, a lack of professional preparation, financial hardship from school loans, and a sub-standard education with no avenues to turn to for help.
March 3rd, 2011 at 8:46 am
I was an instructor at WCi for almost 5 years. I would like to say several things in regards to this issue. I can honestly say that we as instructors had no real idea as to what was being sold to the students. We were unaware of any misleading information as to student loans, promises made, and externship dealings. Those where all in different departments and we were often not aware of there tactics. I never once heard any chef say that you (as students) are going to be rich and successful or for that matter some great chef on the food network. That to me seems like something that was made up to compound this whole lawsuit. We as chefs really had no need to lie, we didn’t gain anything from it, no extra money, no pressure from the corporate office, no benefit at all. In all honesty statements like that from a chef are the last thing they would ever say… even if they felt sorry for you. I question why anyone would agree to going to school when you have no real concept for how much your loan payment will be. Was everyone told some low ball payment? Or were the students in fact just caught in the prospect of going to a culinary school, making it big, and not thinking about there loan payments cause they will be rich? Not saying that admissions never stated that you won’t be rich or famous, but please, get your head out of your rectum, reality folks. We weren’t rich or famous, why would you think you would be? Cause someone told you you would? If you know anything about any job that requires training, you start out on the bottom and work your way up, why would culinary school be any different. I for one, am not defending WCI or what they supposedly did. I however do defend the chefs. In regards to specifics mentioned above…
Ron, why would you be complaining about cooking for the public during your classes? Also don’t you want to know how the front of the house is being run? Waiting on tables is crucial in regards to food service and it is important that the “chef” knows what is gong on out front and how to do it correctly. Turning it over to someone else is unwise on so many levels, if that is what you envisioned some day. Favoritism happens in any field, any where, always. The key is to curb it and treat all fairly. Maybe you were a horrible student that never showed up on time, complained about everything, smelled like rotten cabbage, and had no real interest in being there because your folks forced you to go to college. Maybe not the case at all. Why would you just settle for one place and one place only during your externship? I can’t remark on the specifics of instructors cause you obviously attended during the Goose Hollow Days and I knew nothing during that time.
For anyone claiming that you didn’t get anything from culinary classes, B.S. downright B.S. You get what you put into it. If you put forth zero effort, you would get zero out of it. Can you learn it all from working in the business, absolutely. Can you learn most of it from books and the food network, again absolutely. You don’t however get a degree. It also absolutely helps get your foot in the door.
Almost 5 years of seeing students come and go, I have seen all types. Some complainers, some who actually appreciate you and what you are trying to teach. Some became rich and famous some are dishwashers, some are pump jocks. It’s life folks. Accept it.
BTW I am not a fan of Le Cordon Bleu or WCI. It is just a matter of time before they close there doors. Since the lawsuit, instructors and staff have been laid off, they moved out of the 4th floor, they have dropped there culinary associates program, hospitality program, and are switching to diploma only. They have gone through multiple presidents, they fired there old V.P., and laid off there longest employee of 18 years. If you are pondering attending, don’t.
March 3rd, 2011 at 9:48 am
Guy-
Thanks so much for your comment and for adding your perspective to this discussion. The issues are much more about what information was withheld from prospective students. Part of the problem is the calculation of the placement rate. Part of it is the school’s failure to disclose earnings information that it had in its files. There are other parts, too. I am happy to discuss with you privately, should you be interested.
March 3rd, 2011 at 1:09 pm
I am definitely not defending WCI or there tactics, just the instructors (well maybe not all of them) who busted there humps to help out the students. They (we) often get a bad wrap for things that are implemented by corporate CEC. I am aware of the law suit all to well. I am just at a loss when it comes to making your monthly payments. Didn’t the students sign the documents? Did they actually read any of them first? As far as placement, again in another department of WCI, who knows what was told. I sure don’t. They could of told them anything (which I believe happened). It just irritates me when people come on here or anywhere and talk s*%$ about instructors, when, like you said, it has nothing to do with the lawsuit. Does it? :(
May 14th, 2011 at 9:11 am
To Whom it May Concern:
As a graduate, I have many things to say. Upon admission into the shool, I was told that regardless of the signing of papers, that there were out-of-school programs that would be there to help students in the case of financial hardship, however; upon being in one as a result of finishing the program, I have found that “the corporation” is QUITE unreasonable when working with graduates in a financial hardship. I am harassed via telephone and mail with strong intimidation tactics on a daily basis. I have been hung up on and called names by out-of-school services when merely trying to explain to them why I need a different plan, due to being an expectant mother and due to the general job market in Portland being severely unfavorable to Western graduates. I have taken my credentials off of my resume, and found that with just the experience that I had before school that it was easier to get a job. I only supply my degree upon request. I moved a great distance with the promise of help in housing, employment, and an education in CLASSICAL REFINEMENT, not the beginner’s courses with a bunch of greenhorns that I had to attend. It was indeed NOT what I signed up for. It was a very good thing that I lined up housing for myself, for upon arrival I found that what I was promised by their admissions rep was NOT TRUE. They do indeed fill new prospect’s heads with delusions of grandeur and then present them with a mess. Most of the instructors ARE just as misleading as the corporation they work for (There are a couple of instructors who were valuable and supportive….unfortunately, the curriculum was lacking.). So, as I, like many others, work in our poorly paid (and discriminatory…try being pregnant on a line) positions, struggling to pay rent, other bills, put food on the table…were hoping that attaining a degree (and were literally promised that doing so) would make our chances of any success better…these downright unethical, untruthful, moneymongering, uncaring plastic people are continuing to disillusion people with the same hopes. I could go into many more specifics, and will GLADLY supply any information in regards to my experience as a student so that others do not have to live with what most of us as prior students do. Pretty soon, my otherwise awesome credit will be ruined because of these folks…and their inability to be reasonable. And I have to raise a child soon. Shame on you, WCI, and shame of Le cordon Bleu for allowing this to happen to an organization with an otherwise intended legacy.
May 15th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
I just graduated from a different culinary school in Florida, The Art Institute of Fort Lauderdale. They also promised jobs and couldn’t deliver. Please, if you haven’t already decided, DO NOT GO TO CULINARY SCHOOL. Your “degree” will count for absolutely NOTHING in the industry and will absolutely NOT help you get hired anywhere. They also instructed me to lie on my FAFSA to get more federal aid. STAY AWAY FROM CULINARY SCHOOL.
May 22nd, 2011 at 8:07 am
I would just like to say that i grew up in the 50s and 60s and there were not many culinary schools. i graduated high school and attended a free course courtesy of the state of Hawaii on cooking. i became a private chef and cooked all over the world. 22 yrs i did this and was very happy all the time
May 22nd, 2011 at 10:47 am
It also seems that if so many people who dont know each other and are telling similar horror stories, that there must be some truth. i had no formal schooling yet became a private chef for celebrities and the super rich for 22 years. these kids today do not need to go thru th8is expensive training. i did not and i made it and they can to
May 25th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
I attended the Hospitality and Restaurant Management program at WCI to enhance my already established food and beverage career. The school led me to believe that I would be learning classic culinary techniques, pattisserie, ice carving ect. as well as the business side of the industry. The admissions rep. gave me a tour and told me of all the wonderful things I would be learning. I told her about my background and the things I wanted to learn and she assured me that the school was exactly what I was looking for. Not the case. I realize after attending the school that I was promised much more than I received. The HRM program only included one culinary class which taught little more than sauces and apple pie and at no point ever used the textbook. Instead, we were given Rachel Ray and Martha stewart recipes printed from the internet. Human Resource Management and Law were both taught by an instructor who was perpetually late to class and talked more about her personal life than the subject of study. English we mostly played adlibs and were read Dr Seuss. I was also told by admissions that my classes would be in the evenings and that the school would help me find work and housing. I relocated to Portland, found an apartment on my own and was then informed that my classes were from noon to 430. I found it difficult to find work around such a schedule which meant I needed a stipend(additional loan) just to survive. Now that I have graduated I know little more than I did before, make the same income I did before and have $519 a month in student loans. Never was I promised a job as a chef or a certain income but I was promised a quality education and that was something I never received. For 37k (47k with stipend) I expected more. Shame on WCI.
August 10th, 2011 at 6:25 pm
Ok, for starters I know this is an old thread but I just ran across it today and I hope its atleast somewhat active.
I graduated from WCI. I was part of the 2007 – 2008 class. I remember alot of the questions I had for the admissions rep. I dont remember her name, and she was no longer there half way through my year at WCI, as they all seemed to come and go rather quickly.
I asked specifically about payment amounts per month, and an approximation of what kind of an annual salary I could expect. Her response was “Oh Portland has more restaurants per capita than any other city in the country so you will have no problem whatsoever finding work”. I asked her if she was including McDonalds and Denny’s into that statistic and she said “NO, fast food, diners, and QSR establishments are not part of that”. “So I WILL make enough to pay off a $42,000 student loan?” “Oh absolutely, with no problem”. Then she told me how much I would be making as a “chef”. She also fergot to mention that there is more cooks than restaurants here also.
Sure the executive chef at a huge hotel makes $80k annualy, but that guy also has a bachelors degree in business management as well, knows the right people, and has a talent for kissing the right butts while crunching numbers whether he sucks at cooking or not. Alot of politics go into cooking for a living.
I was lead to believe that I would be a chef, not a line cook, and that was the difference between getting a degree at WCI as apposed to learning at the school of hard knocks, or getting a cheaper diploma (not degree) from another school. Acording to her, WCI makes chefs. The un-named competition makes line/prep cooks. Maybe I could have done more research, so bad on me for that one I suppose. But they took advantage of my ambission, my passion, and my ignorance. I was a dock worker in a small town. What the hell did I know about the restaurant industry in the city? I sure made ALOT more money back home though, twice as much and then some. My credit WAS outstanding, and my bills were always paid on time, and I would have been a home owner by now.
And as for you there mr Guy Smiley (I wonder if we’ve met?)……
I agree with you somewhat about the instructors/slacker students part of what you’re saying. Yes you are right, the instructors are not admission reps and have nothing to do with misleading hopefull students with filthy lies. Also, there are alot of trust fund baby teen-age students that walk through the doors of the Galleria, thinking they dont need to be there because they are some kind of natural talent, that are just there for the piece of paper. I diddnt think I was going to be rich or famous, I just wanted to make the same amount of money I was already making while doing something I love. Dock workers do very well and have good insurance, but lets face it….manual labor sucks! Since moving here and cooking, I have actually had to work through the pain of a bladder infection because I couldnt afford $60 for a doctor visit, and Outside In (the free clinic for homeless/low income) keeps strange hours that diddnt fit with my work schedule.
I actually will admit that I learned alot at WCI. I did, and still do approve of the instructor’s (most of them) ability to teach entry level students who dont know anything about food, like myself at the time. Those who were will willing to learn did just that.
But when legitimate complaints of certain instructors go un noticed it speaks very negatively about the management at WCI. When I pay alot of money for wrong information I feel cheated out of an education. For example, a certain instructor who had a serious small woman complex tells me that such stupid things like cous cous trees actually exists, you shouldnt put salt and pepper on a duck breast before you saute it, and gets in an arguement with a student who was born and raised in Hawaii, about how all Hawaiins are of polynesian descent, it makes you wonder who actually hires these people. And SOME of the instructors are the epitome of incompitent. It gives the good ones a bad name, and there were some really good instructors, and a few horrible ones.
One in particular was only 23 years old, graduated from WCI, worked as a line cook at a fine dining restaurant here in portland for one year, then got hired as an instructor for the restaurant practical class, teaching students how to work in a “real” kitchen. And believe me, he had a serious attitude. I worked for the same chef that he did, but at a different restaurant. That chef had alot of fine dining experience, alot of talent, and could be a bit of a yeller, but he had the experience to warrant such behavior, and had been yelled at himself plenty of times so I diddnt mind getting yelled at by him when I screwed up. When some kid with one year of experience try’s to act like a disciplined kitchen veteran and gets paid for it, you get seriously pissed off. He told us all before service that he was going to show us all how to make a special that he wanted to serve that day. Then he told all the servers to try to sell his fennel salad special because its going to be good. I watched this guy take his sweet time, using the entire day to prep A SALAD!!! and still not have it finished on time. Service at restaurant Bleu had started and orders for his fennel salad specials began to stack up. He, meanwhile, was nowhere to be found! What kind of REAL chef would tell everybody to sell his special, prep half of it, show none of the cooks how he wants it made, then wait untill minutes before service to dissapear?
WCI will let literally anybody in their doors. They build up hopes of becoming a chef within fourteen short months. I know now that that is impossible. When I was still attending, their was a student who attended the night classes who was literally blind. Seriously, I would see her come in early for lab time with sunglasses and the white cane. Another one two cycles behind me in the am classes, was completely deaf. He had a sighn language translator with him and everything. What restaurant owner/manager/chef is going to hire somebody who cant hear or see? How are they supposed to pay their loans?
I was in the Galleria recently to get my transcripts . I had to show them to my recruiter to get my promotion from E1 to E2. I refuse to be a slave to student loan debt for the next 15 years, so I’m begining the paperwork to enlist in the Marine Corps. I’ll pay this nonsense off in four years or die trying. They have been reduced to a single floor of the building, and what looks to be half the staff. To me it seems like the place is just hemmoraging money and I hope WCI bleeds to death soon
August 11th, 2011 at 4:38 am
Hi Sri-
Sorry, but I just saw this. Depending on your enrollment date, you may be included in our class action. Please contact us via htttp://www.davidsugerman.com to get more information. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
David Sugerman